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-   -   The New Hybrids (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=26981)

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis March 14th 05 03:37 PM

The New Hybrids
 
The local Auto Show features several new hybrids.

However, they seem to be hybrids almost in name only. One has a big 250
hp V6, and a dinky little 18 hp electric. A good indication that they
don't "get it" is that it gets better milage on highway than in town,
opposite a good hybrid like the Prius.

I get the feeling these cars are hybrids only as a marketing feature, to
help folks who want a little bit of green be attracted to them.

It is not just Detroit. Several of these pseudo-hybrids are from Japan.

Joe S March 14th 05 11:27 PM

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> The local Auto Show features several new hybrids.
>
> However, they seem to be hybrids almost in name only. One has a big

250
> hp V6, and a dinky little 18 hp electric. A good indication that

they
> don't "get it" is that it gets better milage on highway than in town,


> opposite a good hybrid like the Prius.
>
> I get the feeling these cars are hybrids only as a marketing feature,

to
> help folks who want a little bit of green be attracted to them.
>
> It is not just Detroit. Several of these pseudo-hybrids are from

Japan.


Come on, man...let's have some specifics! I haven't been to an auto
show recently.


Joe


Kruse March 15th 05 01:26 AM


Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> The local Auto Show features several new hybrids.
>
> However, they seem to be hybrids almost in name only. One has a big

250
> hp V6, and a dinky little 18 hp electric. A good indication that

they
> don't "get it" is that it gets better milage on highway than in town,


> opposite a good hybrid like the Prius.
>
> I get the feeling these cars are hybrids only as a marketing feature,

to
> help folks who want a little bit of green be attracted to them.
>
> It is not just Detroit. Several of these pseudo-hybrids are from

Japan.

I can't comment on any hybrid except the Ford Escape Hybrid. AND, this
is not a plug or a bash for it as only time will tell if they are here
to stay or a
flash-in-the-pan gimmick.
However, it has an EPA rating of higher mileage in the city versus the
highway.
BTW, a "domestic" hybrid will have a large percentage of parts made in
Japan.

Post some specifics........


y_p_w March 16th 05 06:18 AM



Kruse wrote:

> Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
>
>>The local Auto Show features several new hybrids.
>>
>>However, they seem to be hybrids almost in name only. One has a big

>
> 250
>
>>hp V6, and a dinky little 18 hp electric. A good indication that

>
> they
>
>>don't "get it" is that it gets better milage on highway than in town,

>
>
>>opposite a good hybrid like the Prius.
>>
>>I get the feeling these cars are hybrids only as a marketing feature,

>
> to
>
>>help folks who want a little bit of green be attracted to them.
>>
>>It is not just Detroit. Several of these pseudo-hybrids are from

>
> Japan.
>
> I can't comment on any hybrid except the Ford Escape Hybrid. AND, this
> is not a plug or a bash for it as only time will tell if they are here
> to stay or a
> flash-in-the-pan gimmick.
> However, it has an EPA rating of higher mileage in the city versus the
> highway.
> BTW, a "domestic" hybrid will have a large percentage of parts made in
> Japan.
>
> Post some specifics........


What I know about the Escape Hybrid is that Ford's in-house
hybrid effort was going nowhere, so they bought the technology
from Toyota. Of course Toyota bought a company with the
proper expertise......

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis March 16th 05 03:47 PM

I tried to post something yesterday, but a new web-based discussion
group I joined (or tried to) really hosed my newsreader, and I don't
think it got through. So, I hope this isn't a duplicate, but here is a
new attempt.

Someone asked for more specifics on my beef with the new hybrids. I was
using the example of the one with a 250 hp IC engine and an 18 hp electric.

To me a proper hybrid should have the IC engine sized for the AVERAGE hp
required by the vehicle, NOT the peak. The electric should be sized for
the difference between the average required and the peak desired. I
really doubt if that car I mentioned has an average requirement of 250 hp.

Joe S March 16th 05 04:35 PM

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> I tried to post something yesterday, but a new web-based discussion
> group I joined (or tried to) really hosed my newsreader, and I don't
> think it got through. So, I hope this isn't a duplicate, but here is a
> new attempt.
>
> Someone asked for more specifics on my beef with the new hybrids. I was
> using the example of the one with a 250 hp IC engine and an 18 hp electric.
>
> To me a proper hybrid should have the IC engine sized for the AVERAGE hp
> required by the vehicle, NOT the peak. The electric should be sized for
> the difference between the average required and the peak desired. I
> really doubt if that car I mentioned has an average requirement of 250 hp.



My opinion is that a variety of capabilities should exist so that
different people can select the optimal performance for his needs.

Not everyone needs 250 hp, but some do.

Not everyone needs better city mileage, many need better highway mileage.

So long as a variety of capabilities are offered, the market can choose
the winners.

You may want to open up your preconceived notions about what things
"should" be.

--
Joe

HLS March 16th 05 06:58 PM


"Don Stauffer in Minneapolis" > wrote in message
...
> I tried to post something yesterday, but a new web-based discussion
> group I joined (or tried to) really hosed my newsreader, and I don't
> think it got through. So, I hope this isn't a duplicate, but here is a
> new attempt.
>
> Someone asked for more specifics on my beef with the new hybrids. I was
> using the example of the one with a 250 hp IC engine and an 18 hp

electric.
>
> To me a proper hybrid should have the IC engine sized for the AVERAGE hp
> required by the vehicle, NOT the peak. The electric should be sized for
> the difference between the average required and the peak desired. I
> really doubt if that car I mentioned has an average requirement of 250 hp.


I am certainly not in a position to second guess professional engineers
(especially not Japanese ones ;>) but if I got a hybrid that (1) stood the
test of time (2) gave me 50+ mpg and (3) handled and accelerated briskly, I
would be happy, I think.

My son's Honda performs (2) and (3) very well. (1) is up for grabs, but
we'll know in time.

If the specific vehicle you are citing can't do this, I wouldn't say that
being a hybrid carries much interest.



y_p_w March 17th 05 07:10 AM



Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:

> I tried to post something yesterday, but a new web-based discussion
> group I joined (or tried to) really hosed my newsreader, and I don't
> think it got through. So, I hope this isn't a duplicate, but here is a
> new attempt.
>
> Someone asked for more specifics on my beef with the new hybrids. I was
> using the example of the one with a 250 hp IC engine and an 18 hp electric.
>
> To me a proper hybrid should have the IC engine sized for the AVERAGE hp
> required by the vehicle, NOT the peak. The electric should be sized for
> the difference between the average required and the peak desired. I
> really doubt if that car I mentioned has an average requirement of 250 hp.


Part of the deal with hybrids is that the electric motor is supposed
to provide that initial takeoff where IC engines are pretty inefficient.
Even a small electric motor should be good for this boost.

It's probably not the other style of hybrid system with a small
super efficient IC engine and a larger electric motor to provide
extra boost to keep the acceleration tolerable. The Prius or
Insight are getting 50/60 MPH on the highway because it's a dinky
little fuel-efficient IC engine.

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis March 17th 05 03:50 PM

Joe S wrote:
>
>
> My opinion is that a variety of capabilities should exist so that
> different people can select the optimal performance for his needs.
>
> Not everyone needs 250 hp, but some do.
>
>


I am not saying the total hp should be lower. Lets say peak performance
demands 268 hp, but average is 100. Then the IC should be 100 and he
electric should be 168.

I see little reason to make a hybrid with a 250 hp and an 18 hp
electric. Performance would be the same, i.e., peak hp of 268 either
way. The first way would be much more efficient, however.

I fail to see why someone would want a vehicle these days that burns
much more fuel for the same performance.

Joe S March 17th 05 05:27 PM


Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:
> Joe S wrote:
> >
> >
> > My opinion is that a variety of capabilities should exist so that
> > different people can select the optimal performance for his needs.
> >
> > Not everyone needs 250 hp, but some do.
> >
> >

>
> I am not saying the total hp should be lower. Lets say peak

performance
> demands 268 hp, but average is 100. Then the IC should be 100 and he


> electric should be 168.
>
> I see little reason to make a hybrid with a 250 hp and an 18 hp
> electric. Performance would be the same, i.e., peak hp of 268 either


> way. The first way would be much more efficient, however.
>
> I fail to see why someone would want a vehicle these days that burns
> much more fuel for the same performance.



I don't understand what you're saying....are you saying that the hybrid
model of whichever vehicle you are referring to (which is it, by the
way?) consumes more gasoline than it's convential version?

I know that the Escape hybrid gets much better mileage than it's
conventional counterpart. So, again, some specifics?


Joe



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